The Batavia guns were the low priced or "field grade" models of the Baker Gun & Forging Co. To reduce costs the Batavia line did not have the "firing pin block safety" or the "draw block" which passes transversely through the barrel lug and mates into recesses in the frame, of the graded Baker hammerless guns and the Model 1897 hammer gun. Updated every minute of everyday! The records of production under . It was reprinted and can be found. They were named "New Baker.". Sort of a Hi-Jack here I suppose. Fairly plain wood with checkering mostly worn smooth, but appears to have been originally a nice pattern, nothing real fancy. Overall the checkering remains crisp. Folsom-made Baker guns normally have an F before or after the serial number. Your stock has some gouge marks near the end of the side plates which leads me to believe there is hairline crack in the stock, but maybe not. Without serious collector interest they can be had for a song in comparison to Parker, Fox, Smith's etc. Baker was ill with TB and they brought in Frank A. Hollenbeck as plant superintendent. If I wasn't a nice person I'd use the term 'gun snob'. Book value is a bit more than the asking price.You need to list the condition of the bores, very important on this gun where condition is everything, and if I were you I'd try listing it on Doublegunshop.com Gunboards is tops for the regular run of C&Rs but for shotguns there are more folks interested in the older shotguns on that specialty. Create your own unique website with customizable templates. There is one Baker advertising brochure from 1909 'The Baker Gunner' that could provide info on barrel lengths. Chambers would have definitely been 2 5/8' Remember the early nitro powders 'white' did not create the higher pressures of todays duplex powders. It lists the B grade but not the A. On the left side, "BATAVIA LEADER, is engraved in the same proximity to the breech. Copyright (c) 1993 - 2017 doublegunshop.com. EA Canada's latest football offering does a good job of re-creating the carnival atmosphere that surrounds every World Cup competition, and although the Xbox 360 game still lacks some of the best features from its PlayStation 2 and Xbox counterparts, it's a. Your Serial number 5504F should have clued me F is for Folsom manufacture, that info was tucked away somewhere in the recesses of my memory. Batavia, New York. Folsom markings: "BATAVIA LEADER" on the left side; "BAKER GUN CO." on the right. The later Baker Batavia Leader guns produced under ownership by the Folsom Arms Company used a coil spring top lever return. Many shooters are not aware Baker Gun was one of the 'Big Six' of classic American Doubles. Contents - Index:. Length of pull is 14 1/4 inches. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum. 2023 - WorthPoint Corporation | 5 Concourse Parkway NE, Suite 2900. Create your own unique website with customizable templates. I believe 28 inch barrels would have been available but there is a chance someone cut yours back from 30 or 32'. Makes me think it is Belgian in origin but with no proof marks on the barrel flats thats unlikely. Best Regards, Tom. H & D Folsom Arms Co. 23, 25, and 31 (1929-1930) only list the Batavia Leader and Black Beauty Special. The GyroJet pistol fires small rockets or microjets that utilize rocket propulsion to fire its rounds rather than the traditional gunpowder [], The Manurhin MR73 series of revolvers was developed specifically for the requirements of the French Gendarmerie and special service units of the French Police and Military. They state that the normal engraving is scroll, dogs, and game; but could be all scroll, scroll and dogs or scroll and game. Face to face in Illinois would be best. Make a single barrel trap shotgun with ventilated rib. Useful Links. Syracuse Forging and Gun Co., Syracuse, NY 1887-1889 New Baker with Underbolt 30 Syracuse Forging and Gun Co., Batavia, NY 1889-1890 New Baker with Underbolt 30 Baker Gun Forging Co.The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts.Join us to discuss firearms of all kinds, gun accessories, legal issues and more. The Batavia Leader number series were from 75,000 to about 106,000. The only way to tell is to look at the barrels. side by side, I think Serial # 9816F. With a history and tradition of fine gun making behind them, the Manurhin series of Revolvers is truly world-class. I believe Bakers provide a man of average means to own and collect some very nice classic American Doubles at very reasonable prices. From your serial number your gun is an H&D . Well, best of luck and thanks again for posting. Pole arms, swords, fire-arms, helmets & other armour, Manion's Firearms Auction 200 Closes January 19, 1999, Firearms and weapons, the collection of the late D. N. Crouse, Deanes' Manual of the History and Science of Fire-Arms, Report On the Manufacture of Fire-Arms and Ammunition, Rare firearms and kindred weapons, gathered by Mr. Fred E. Hines. WTS Baker Batavia Leader double-barrel shotgun $400 circa 1910. View more in our Baker Guns Price Guide. Crescent Fire Arms Company did not start making Baker shotguns until 1920. At the time of his birth, all of New England's population wasn't as significant as the population of New York City is today. The shotgun features 2 3/4 inch chambers, chokes measure full/modified, with an extractor. Barrel length and type of steel (indicate if . Doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. In the very last Baker ads that I've found in old sporting magazines from April and May 1928, and October 1929, Folsom also offered a 410-bore Batavia Leader, though I've never seen one. Consider upgrading your membership for less than a box of bullets! This gun retains about 70% original finish and is a sound shooter. It's barrels are 30" with Full Blue Coverage. My reference The Breech Loading Shotgun In America, 1860 to 1940 list three makers named Baker, two American and one English. Baker Gun Company Batavia Leader Shell Ejector 12g Double Barrel Shotgun Part. 2-piper, the New Baker you saw, if it was marked Syracuse Forging and Gun Company, Syracuse , was made before the factory fire in 1889. However, the 'Batavia Grade' guns did not have these features. There was also a Batavia Ejector that listed at 35 with steel barrels and 37.50 with Damascus barrels. H & D Folsom revived the Batavia Leader name but with steel barrels like the old Batavia Special. So if the serial number starts with a (3) it is a model 1900. The trigger guard retains 95% blue finish. Sep 28, 2017. Not high condition but shootable with appropriate loads. This new venture became theIthaca Gun Company. Daryl is capturing information on the W.H. Value of PARKER SHOTGUN General. An A will have Damascus and a B will have Twist. Batavia Specials were numbered in the 150,000 to 171,000 range exclusively. From 1919 to approximately 1923, Folsom continued to assemble and make Baker shotguns. Although I think they are nice old doubles there is virtually no collector interest in them. Baker Batavia Leader S Serial Number And. $5.95 shipping. Therefore, no two guns are exactly alike. There, his two sons joined him in learning the firearms industry. Doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. What Baker guns does that serial number list apply to Baker was making his trigger-break hammer double and three-barrel guns in Lisle, New York, in 1876 and then Syracuse, New York, by 1877, as W.H. A 'Trade Brand Name' shot is one that was made by a major maker for and was sold by a wholesale sporting goods dealer, a retail chain store or an independent seller (your local hardware store) who chose the name to go on the gun. Now, Baker Gun & Forging sold the business to H.& D. Folsom in 1919 and then the guns were marked 'Baker Gun Co.' As this one is not, I assume it is earlier than that. The barrels have retained 97-98% of their original blue finish with some mild silvering visible at the muzzles . Lack of an F in the serno indicates manuf before 1919 as ownership changed to a company named Folsom and Folsom guns had f's in the serno. 4. Date of manufacture? 1903 Model Incl Contract Prod. Apr 17, 2013. No need to be fancy, just an overview. . Ellis Baker had formed the Syracuse Forging Company to produce forged wagon wheel components and other parts used for different types of manufacturing. Ken Hurst information on the barrels being being damsacus is incorrect provided this gun is a 'Batavia Special' vs. 'Batavia Leader'. Grades for these Folsom owned Baker Guns were the 'Batavia Leader,' 'Black Beauty Special,' 'Paragon,' 'Expert,' and 'DeLuxe.' Smith section for listings of the Baker patented three-barrel and two-barrel guns. After WW-I with the rise of repeaters Baker sold their gun business to H&D Folsom Co. a major marketer, manufacturer and importer of low priced guns. We'll need to see some pictures of your gun to really tell you much about it. May 1900 -- At this date they only appeared to offer 5 guns -- Model 1897 hammer gun with twist barrels 25 net, Model 1897 Hammer gun with Damascus barrels 27.80 net, the B-Grade with London Damascus twist barrels for 35 net, the A-Grade with Fine Four-Blade Damascus barrels 42.75 net, and the Paragon Grade with fine four-blade Damascus barrels with extra fine figure 60 net. Throughout the 1860s and 1870s, Baker received several patents for his shotgun designs. The action retains 97% original case colors. Standard 12 ga bores are.729 inch (cylinder bore), a full choke is.694, modified.710 and Improved Cylinder.720 inches. Unlock additional features, and fewer ads while browsing. Leader, and Damascus guns about 1916. 3, May 1900 - At this date they only appeared to offer 5 guns - Model 1897 hammer gun with twist barrels $25 net, Model 1897 Hammer gun with Damascus barrels $27.80 net, the B-Grade with 'London Damascus twist' barrels for $35 net, the A-Grade with Fine Four-Blade Damascus barrels $42.75 net, and the Paragon Grade with fine four-blade Damascus barrels with extra fine figure $60 net. Bidding. In that range one could find single barrel trap guns, Leaders, Paragons, Black Beauty, and a couple of others. site.Standard 12 ga bores are.729 inch (cylinder bore), a full choke is.694, modified.710 and Improved Cylinder.720 inches. Baker. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Bidding ended on 6/14/2013. The used value of a BAKER shotgun has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $329.69 . This one is 786XX, which puts it in the early days.Now, Baker Gun & Forging sold the business to H.& D. Folsom in 1919 and then the guns were marked 'Baker Gun Co.' As this one is not, I assume it is earlier than that. A serial number if there is one will be stamped on the bottom of the barrels or the flat part of the receiver which is known as the watertable. Folsom listed the Black Beauty Special for $62 -$77 with ejectors, the Paragon $100 -$115, the Expert for $215, and the DeLuxe for $385. The gun is tight and operates . Baker did offer a 'Batavia Leader' however. There was also a Batavia Ejector that listed at $35 with steel barrels and $37.50 with Damascus barrels. The first of these would appear to be #228,165 issued to W H Baker for the forend fastener (J Spring) & the second to A C Mcfarland for the Rebounding Locks (trigger plate action). From a 1909 copy of The Baker Gunner - The Batavia Leader had twist barrels and listed at $25 - The Batavia Special had steel barrels and listed at $21.75 - The Batavia Damascus had Damascus barrels and listed at $28 - and, finally the Batavia Brush had 26-inch twist barrels and a straight-grip stock listing at $24 and offered swivels and a sling as an option for $3. You have what I call a 'Trade Brand Name' shotgun but that is not technically true. IT HAS A SERIAL NUMBER OF 2921. . Membership is free and we welcome all types of shooters, whether youre a novice or a pro. Made from drop forged parts, Baker single-/double barrel shotguns quickly gained a reputation for strength and reliability among shooters of the period. What Baker guns does that serial number list apply to Baker was making his trigger-break hammer double and three-barrel guns in Lisle, New York, in 1876 and then Syracuse, New York, by 1877, as W.H. If there is choke constriction in the last two inches of either barrel it has probably not been cut. In 1919 Baker sold out their gun business to H&D Folsom. I have a batavia leader with a serial number of 1246, also 81246 in another place under the hand stock. Baker, Baker, and L.C. I would like any information on a Baker Gun Co. Batavia Leader 12Ga. The sidelock 'Black Beauty' replaced the Batavia Special, Leader, and Damascus guns about 1916. I also originally thought this is an A grade, but wonder if it could be a Parigon. After L.C. Pat - Your collection of Baker trap guns sounds interesting. SOLD - $735.00. Use a long swinging sear, that once adjusted, gave consistent trigger pull throughout the working life of an arm. This gun has plenty of wear, and a light patina, and a few little rust spots in the one photo near the forearm. In 1919 Baker sold out their gun business to H&D Folsom. Baker Batavia LeaderComplete Restoration. H D Folsom revived the Batavia Leader name but with steel barrels like the old Batavia Special.It is marked Baker Gun Company-Batavia N.Y. . ca. V2-B2 Barrel Length: 28 Bore condition: Good, Your email address will not be published. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. Prices vary on who you talk to. Smith as being the dominant partner as L.C. . Serial number E1754 (mfg. Folsom-made Baker guns normally have an F before or after the serial number. We are unsure of the chamber size or choke as they are not marked but we took close up of all stamps. 30 inch barrel has great blue outside, bright and clean inside. The Batavia guns were the low priced or field grade models of the Baker Gun Forging Co. To reduce costs the Batavia line did not have the firing pin block safety or the draw block which passes transversely through the barrel lug and mates into recesses in the frame, of the graded Baker hammerless guns and the Model 1897 hammer gun. $300 circa 1910 BAKER BATAVIA LEADER double-barrel shotgun $300 FTF in . June 15th 2013 Premier Gun (08) . The pictures shown are hard to see the pattern. I asked why he would do consider doing that, he said it would be a good cowboy gun. On the 1900 sometimes there is a Q ahead of the serial number, the Q signifies the model 1900. Doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. Late model Bakers were made by Crescent Firearms Company and have serial numbers with an "F" suffix. Batavia Specials go for between $200 and $400 when you see them. In the very last Baker ads that I've found in old sporting magazines from April and May 1928, and October 1929, Folsom also offered a 410-bore Batavia Leader, though I've never seen one.During the Baker Gun & Forging Co. Days there were several variations of the lower priced 'Batavia' line. The company was founded in Marathon, New York, under the name W.H. Drew In my reference book, "The Breech Loading Shotgun In America 1865 To 1940" written by Joseph T. Vorisek under the section on Baker Gun And Forging Company, Serial Number Ranges For Baker Shotguns, page 104, it list the Batavia Special production starting in 1908 with serial number 150,000 and continuing until 1915 and ending with serial number 153,200. Do a search for Baker Batavia Leader and you'll find quite a range of prices. I might also guess your gun has steel barrels rather than the earlier twist barrels for the Leader. In the 6000 range A's and B's should be marked 'A' or 'B' in the serial number but 'should be' is not always true. Folsom-made Baker guns normally have an F before or after the serial number. Im an extreme newbie when it comes to knowledge but the shotgun looks to me to be in really nice condition with no scratches or dings on the stock, forearm or metal. The Batavia guns were the low priced or field grade models of the Baker Gun & Forging Co. To reduce costs the Batavia line did not have the firing pin block safety or the draw block which passes transversely through the barrel lug and mates into recesses in the frame, of the graded Baker hammerless guns and the Model 1897 hammer gun. The Batavia Special was never made with Damascus barrels, the leader barrels should be stamped on top near the chambers in very small letters 'Homotensile steel', the other barrel will be stamped 'choke bored'. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk. After four years, Baker decided to withdraw from the partnership and went back to Syracuse to work with his brother, Ellis. Baker Double Barrel Shotguns .. No need to be fancy, just an overview. With the letter F in the serial number, your Batavia Leader was made after Baker Gun & Forging Co. sold out the gun part of their business to H & D Folsom Arms Co. of New York City in 1919. Baker and his associations; and both men will gladly share the information they have gathered over many years. If you upload close ups on the barrel pattern I can identify that for you. The Baker Gun & Forging Company manufactured excellent quality side by side shotguns from 1887 to 1919 in Syracuse and Batavia, New York. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. 'The cut of the Baker hammerless gun as shown here was made from one of the regular 'B' grade guns picked from our stock on hand and is a fair sample of the engraving we put on these guns. A few years ago, circa 1995, there was a young guy who was trying to write a history of the company and its guns. $300 FTF in Illinois with valid FOID. Come for the info, stay and make some friends. $100 -$115, the Expert for $215, and the DeLuxe for $385. The round knob on the grip is not characteristic of cheaper guns, this is an added expense. When the plant in Syracuse burned and they moved operations to Batavia, W.H. at that point of the stock.This is OLD, and and the info I have found on the internet says that you don't want to shoot a gun this old unless checked by a gunsmith first.an expert gunsmith who knows these old guns and can tell you if it is safe.Please see the pictures. A BAKER shotgun is currently worth an average price of $329.69 used . 30" twist barrels & while I didn't weigh it I would guess a solid 8lbs or more. L2full lineage 2 interlude install disc. Okay, found it. So, looks like when they went into inventory to get the gauge, barrel length and stock dimensions you wanted the engraving was a crap shoot. Baker "normally" had their different gun models in blocks of serial numbers for each gun model, but during this period they had many models in the same block of serial numbers, from roughly the high 30,000 range through 51,000 or so. I confirmed pre 1919 Batavia Specials (no F in Serno) had barrels made in Belgium. Payment Methods: money order, certified check. This lot is closed for bidding. Offered in a wide variety of grades, from plain utilitarian to heavily embellished models. Baker Gun & Forging Co.was an American firearms manufacturer established in 1863 by William Baker and Lewis Smith. Five Double Barrel Shotguns -A) Baker Gun Co. Batavia Leader ShotgunChamber measured 2 3/4" with extractor, chokes measured improved modified/full, and 15" LOP. Select Category THE BAKER GUN & FORGING CO. The Baker Gun Quarterly, Volume 5, No. Any information as to history and value would be welcome. I bought a very high condition Batavia Special earlier this year for the price of a used 870. Value around $500 depending on overall condition. After WW-I with the rise of repeaters Baker sold their gun business to H&D Folsom Co. A major marketer, manufacturer and importer of low priced guns. Attached is one page of the '1909 Baker Gunner'. Folsom Company had, for almost 20 years, been Baker Company's sole New York City agent and had marketed at least one Baker model that was only made for them. If you haven't already found the site, you might check out The site includes a little history that helps explain why some people associate Baker with one city and other folks place him in another city. 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Good, your email address will not be published the same proximity to the breech plain with... Behind them, the Manurhin series of Revolvers is truly world-class of a Baker gun Company Batavia Leader series..., bright and clean inside Co.was an American firearms manufacturer established in 1863 by Baker. About 1916 2 3/4 inch chambers, chokes measure full/modified, with an `` ''. At very reasonable prices `` Batavia Leader Shell Ejector 12g Double barrel..! Batavia Special earlier this year baker batavia leader shotgun serial numbers the Leader after four years, Baker received several patents for his shotgun.. Strength and reliability among shooters of the chamber size or choke as they are not marked we... I might also guess your gun has steel barrels and $ 400 when you see them and 37.50 with barrels! Barrels and 37.50 with Damascus barrels that could provide info on barrel lengths patents his! 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'S etc - your collection of Baker trap guns, Leaders,,. 12 ga bores are.729 inch ( cylinder bore ), a full choke is.694, modified.710 and Improved inches... A Q ahead of the serial number to heavily embellished models wheel components other... I also originally thought this is an a will have twist side by side, `` Leader! ' guns did not start making Baker shotguns Batavia, W.H this is an h & Folsom. An arm Leader 12Ga doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein average price of Baker... Length and type of steel ( indicate if, Folsom continued to assemble and make Baker shotguns until.! Making behind them, the 'Batavia grade ' guns did not start making Baker.. Size or choke as they are not aware Baker gun Company Batavia Leader double-barrel shotgun $ FTF... On the barrel flats thats unlikely h & D Folsom revived the Batavia Leader and Black Beauty Special value a...